Bicycles: Are They Automobiles?

"Matt Brown" (superfastmatt) 10/21/2019 at 12:40 • Filed to: Bicycles, everything is an automobile

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When somebody says automobile, they are usually talking about those four-wheeled things with internal combustion engines. But what if you have two wheels and no engine? Last week we determined that you don’t need any wheels for an automobile: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with no wheels at all. So if four wheels is an automobile, and zero wheels is an automobile, then two wheels is definitely an automobile!

Also motorcycles.

What about the fact that there is no engine? Sure, it’s mobile, but it’s not automatically mobile.

Automobiles carry many different power plants: gasoline, diesel, electric, compressed air, that turbine car that Chrysler made in the 1960s, that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that never really worked. Who says that you are not also a valid automobile engine?

“Uh, I do,” you say, “If you’re doing work then it is not automatic, obviously.”

Thought experiment: let’s say you buy a stationary bicycle that generates electricity while you ride. You plug that bike into your Nissan Leaf and ride vigorously for 8 hours. For a 100 watt bike, this will net you about three miles of range (40kWh battery /150-mile range = 266Wh per mile). You then drive your Leaf to pick up a protein shake and some Advil using only the electricity you generated with your leg pistons. Does the Leaf cease to be an automobile in this case?

If you’re pedaling up a hill, it is definitely not automatic, but what about when you get to the top of the hill? The bike will automatically take you down the hill. Or what if you pedal really fast and then just kind of glide along with inertia doing the work? As you pedal, you’re just putting in energy. Pedaling a bicycle is filling up the bicycle’s fuel tank.

Also, they can legally use the road. The whole road. And you have to wait behind them until you frustratedly pass on a double yellow and they yell something at you with righteous indignation but you’re passing quickly so all you hear is “aaaAAAHHHHhhh”.

Bicycles are automobiles.

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For Sweden > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 12:44

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Yes

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 12:45

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atfsgeoff > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 12:49

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Bicycles are definitely vehicles, but they’re not automobiles. E-bikes are automobiles in the most basic sense though.

The Leaf example you provide doesn’t change anything, the Leaf is still operating on potential energy stored in its battery and not being propelled directly by its user. The fact that the electricity was generated by the user before-hand doesn’t change this.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 12:49

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Sure. They also should have insurance/plates to be road going.

If a cyclists want to share urban/suburban roads, they should be registered/taxed/insured as well.

Spanfeller is a twat > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 12:49

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While the human digestive system is not an internal combustion engine (no matter how much you fart) it does convert energy stored chemically into movement and other things .

So, a bicycle being ridden is an automobile.

vondon302 > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 12:50

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This is a El Camino.

Aremmes > Spanfeller is a twat 10/21/2019 at 12:58

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By that logic, a human being is an automobile — the bicycle is just a removable undercarriage.

For Sweden > Aremmes 10/21/2019 at 12:59

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A human being is an automobile

His Stigness > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:00

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Holy crap absolutely. As a cyclist I don’t don’t want to be liable financially if something happens. I also want to be covered when the inevitable happens and some asshole hits me yet again. 

lone_liberal > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 13:00

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No, if it was an automobile then a horse drawn carriage could be considered one too. You can’t ghost ride a bicycle so it’s not an AUTOmobile. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 13:00

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Is that a CAD 5? Dang that takes me back to the early 2000's and my first cannondale. I had a CAAD 5, then a 7 and finally a CAAD 9. 

Spanfeller is a twat > Aremmes 10/21/2019 at 13:02

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Yss

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:03

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But bicycled don’t impact the roads, pollute the atmosphere etc. And people who can afford a $5,000 specialized already have four range rovers at home so they are doing their part to pay their taxes.

Matt Brown > atfsgeoff 10/21/2019 at 13:04

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A bicycle on a hill has potential energy: “potential energy is the energy held by an object because of its position relative to other objects, stresses within itself, its electric charge, or other factors.”

Matt Brown > vondon302 10/21/2019 at 13:05

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Only if there is a Raiders sticker on the back.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:06

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Sure, but we're building bike storage and bike Lanes. And what if you hit someone?

Aremmes > For Sweden 10/21/2019 at 13:07

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The copy and paste functions appear to work as intended.

atfsgeoff > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:07

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Governments have a compelling interest to encourage as many people as possible to cycle, due to health benefits, reduced congestion, less pollution, etc. That is the main reason bicycles are not subject to registration or road tax.

They don’t require insurance because it is highly unlikely for a cyclist to cause considerable property damage or injury to another party. Not impossible, but it’s rare enough that mandatory insurance is statistically unnecessary.

Matt Brown > lone_liberal 10/21/2019 at 13:07

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Matt Brown > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:08

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Yup! 

lone_liberal > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 13:09

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Ok, you got me. I stand corrected, at least on the ghost riding part.

Now do it uphill.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 10/21/2019 at 13:10

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Cyclists cause more injury than you'd think in urban areas

Wacko > Spanfeller is a twat 10/21/2019 at 13:10

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Farts are sometimes a turbo and or a smoke screen when on a bicycle 

atfsgeoff > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 13:10

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By that logic, a person falling off a cliff is an automobile.

Gravity alone does not count toward the definition.

Grindintosecond > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:14

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9’s are so nice

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 10/21/2019 at 13:15

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Also, your insurance has a AB (accident benefits) section, where it covers your medical costs on a no fault basis when involved in a crash.

Wouldn’t it be beneficial to cyclists if this were the case as well?

atfsgeoff > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:15

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How many of those injuries were caused by pedestrians violating the cyclists’ right of way? Should pedestrians require liability insurance?

Matt Brown > atfsgeoff 10/21/2019 at 13:16

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A person falling off a cliff on a bicycle is an automobile.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 10/21/2019 at 13:16

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Some maybe, but at the end of the day, like in a car, the cyclist is the one going to get sued.

Trust me on this man, everyone thinks its so controversial, but if we required a $5-$20 per month registration/insurance cost for bikes in urban centers , it would be great for everyone.

atfsgeoff > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:25

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Trust me on this man, everyone thinks its so controversial, but if we required a $5-$20 per month registration/insurance cost for bikes in urban centers, it would be great for everyone.

If by “great for everyone” you mean great for insurance companies, sure.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 10/21/2019 at 13:26

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What if it was a government run insurance program?

Also, insurance companies are not boogeymen (OK..some are)

Spanfeller is a twat > Aremmes 10/21/2019 at 13:28

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Yss

Spanfeller is a twat > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:28

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This is one of the worst ideas I’ve heard regarding mobility and I’ve heard it multiple times, primarily by people who have never used a bicycle regularly   as a method of transportation.

For the reasons explained below by others... it just makes very little sense; and the downsides would far outweigh the benefits.

fintail > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:30

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LOL at people with 4 Range Rovers doing their part to pay taxes - if anything in this day and age, that demographic is reaping nearly the entirety of tax-based rewards in endless trickle down hopes/lies/d reams.

And if one of dorks hits me while on foot, well, it’ll be fun.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:32

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If I hit someone I get hurt, they don’t. 

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:33

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And around my area, removing car lanes for bike lanes. In a place where it rains 380 days a year, traffic is already among the worst in the nation, and only a statistically invisible band of diehards use bikes for anything but weekend pleasure - and those removing the lanes both don’t commute by bike nor have to drive in the areas impacted by removed lanes. Citizens deluxe at it again, earn those nice pensions and bennies you brave warriors for truth and justice.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Grindintosecond 10/21/2019 at 13:34

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The 9 was a fantastic bike, I replaced it with a carbon BMC and it is just that much better. If I was racing I would prefer the 9 or a 10.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:34

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Sure.

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/08/07/pedestrian-dies-after-cyclist-hit-and-run/

https://gothamist.com/news/pedestrian-dies-after-being-struck-by-cyclist-in-midtown

https://www.straight.com/news/743336/vancouver-pedestrian-killed-collision-cyclist-stanley-park

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/fatal-pedestrian-cyclist-collision-calgary-charges-1.4966280

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07/number-pedestrians-fatally-seriously-injured-cyclists-has-doubled/

https://www.cheknews.ca/cyclist-who-killed-duncan-woman-gets-500-fine-to-shock-of-her-husband-536712/

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > fintail 10/21/2019 at 13:36

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Meh, I’m typically team bike, but I think we do need to collect some sort of registration/insurance fees for victim services, infrastructure support, enforcement and other costs.

PartyPooper2012 > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 13:37

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I think first part of the word should give you the answer - Auto. Nothing in a bicycle is auto. You gotta pedal.

Sure. There are bicycles that come with extra oomph - electric or gas powered motors to aid your travels. Them I think are automobiles.

Though, my opinion does not matter. If a cops sees you riding bicycle drunk, you are getting DUI because you were on a public roadway

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:39

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I’m for equal responsibility. In that case, some kind of controls make sense.  Punishments for motorists impacting cyclists are often too lax, and it goes both ways.

It’d be interesting to see the punishments doled out when a cyclist injures or kills a pedestrian, or even damages a car when they blow a red light or stop sign as is far too common. I’ll guess it is virtually nothing.

PartyPooper2012 > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 13:42

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While it has not reached the object that is earth or similar structures

PartyPooper2012 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:45

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Little billy can’t ride his big wheel today - didn’t pay his insurance

PartyPooper2012 > fintail 10/21/2019 at 13:47

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your years are long!

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > PartyPooper2012 10/21/2019 at 13:49

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I think he was using hyperbole.  Having met him, he doesn’t strike me as a guy who doesn’t know how many days are in a year.

PartyPooper2012 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:49

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We already do. They are called taxes. Taxes to build appropriate infrastructure, enforcement of regulations. etc.

When I say appropriate infrastructure I mean municipalities aren’t building horse stables anymore.

Sooner or later, jetsons prediction will be true and we will have flying cars. We are going to need to park them somewhere in the cloud.

We already pay for all this with our taxes.

PartyPooper2012 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 13:52

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I am just going along with the joke. I know most parts of earth have less than 380 days in a year

atfsgeoff > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 14:06

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Any for-profit business whose services are mandated by the government, is crooked.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 10/21/2019 at 14:10

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Really? I don’t think so. The only thing the government warrants is that you have insurance to a min amount (shockingly low amount) if you own a car.

But, they also warrant that you maintain your car to a specific standard, so by definition are they mandating mechanics?

atfsgeoff > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/21/2019 at 14:16

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Yes, state-mandated safety inspections are a racket.

https://www.thezebra.com/insurance-news/3175/vehicle-inspections-really-safety/

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 14:17

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Sailboats were around a looong time before cars, and no one ever thought to call them automobiles...

Sovande > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 14:29

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A lunch tray has the same potential and it’s not an automobile.

just-a-scratch > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 14:44

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I contend that an automobile be a vehicle capable of carrying people and/ or objects that moves by doing useful work to transform some energy source into motion.

Under this definition, a conventional bicycle would not be a vehicle unless it includes at least one rider providing motive power and these were capable of carrying other people and/ or things. Therefore, a conventional bicycle itself is not an automobile.

Urambo Tauro > Matt Brown 10/21/2019 at 19:26

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Bicycles are absolute ly vehicles , but I wouldn’t call them automobiles .

I still think “automobile” was a poor choice of word for cars in general. The word really should have been reserved specifically for autonomous vehicles .

Urambo Tauro > PartyPooper2012 10/21/2019 at 19:39

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I would take the auto prefix further than that .

I don’t think it’s enough for the engine/motor to be the thi ng that qualifie s the vehicle as being “ automatic ”. Nor is it enough for an automatic transmission to do the shifting. For the “ mobile” to be truly “auto”, the entire thing must be automatic. Honestly, the word “automobile” was always the wrong word for cars in general . It should have been reserved for (fully)   au tonomous vehicles . Cars shou ld have been named something else in the meantime, like “motormobile”.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Matt Brown 10/22/2019 at 05:20

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bicycles are not automobiles